Typically, I can’t stand the race card being played–99 times out of 100, especially in Canada, it’s being used as an excuse or a scapegoat for broader or unrelated issues. But when it comes to hitting up chinese cuisine…hoo-boy, different story.

Help with menu translations? Expect an irritable, “why the hell are you here,” glare the entire time. Help explaining the order, or getting suggestions on a menu? Nonexistent. In at least 40-50% of my chinese dinning experiences, my waiters or waitresses spoke virtually no English and seemed to be quite offended that I would expect her to. Q: “What kind of flavor would you say this dish has?” A: “Yes.” Oy.

I understand that–especially the older generation–has major racism issues towards blacks (little old ladies still frequently cross the street when I walk by dressed in business casual), but seeing it so frequently somewhere that is earning a living in part from my patronage would be hilarious if it wasn’t so ubiquitous.

Comparing the above to my experiences in Thai, Filipino, or Japanese restaurants? Night and day. Friendly, helpful service, warm, inviting–no comparison.

So yes, the exoticness factor is a major issue–the thought of eating intestines or congealed blood has a kneejerk repulsion factor for me–but I think the attitude and atmosphere is by far the #1 issue. If a restaurant wants to do everything in it’s power to tell me they don’t need my business, I’ll gladly oblige them.

Hey brother, there are different levels of offensive. For example, if an asian guy call you a “white” guy, you can call him as a “yellow” guy, to get even. I accept anybody calls me a Yellow guy, because I accept the fact that my skin is Yellow, however, I am proud of myself as a yellow guy, and I think you should be proud of your skin color too.

If you call me a “C***k”, I will find it is too extreme for you to do get back at me like that, because I don’t call you as “something else”. “Fairness” is the only word we ask for, for example, if I throw you a punch, you should not get back at me with 10 punches.

I am more than happy to openly dicuss more with you about these, so does speak “Racism” topics, because I belive that living in Canada, a multi-cultural country, we should discuss them more openly in order for us to understand each other culture and values. Once we get rid of this “barrier” then we will naturally respect each other culture and belives.

Being able to eat tripe or other “unfamiliar” or otherwise “gross” items does not earn the medal as being “worldly” and “non-discriminitory” in your “frankness”. However, I applaud your use of the wideky-accepted “sandwich” method in giving us “constructive” feedback on the topic.

In any case, I still think that some of the remarks (the filling in the sandwich) made in Dyn’s post were rather offensive and accusational. In terms of the “mysterious papers” on the walls, I have yet to find one thing on the wall that is not in the menu. It is very common for restaurants in some parts of Asia to have particular recommended items in the menu, restated on their walls. It is part of a cultural decor in restaurants that are trying to run a more cafe/diner type business.

I do agree about the poor service found in most of the restaurants. One point I find crucial to point out, is that I receive the same curt, abrupt service, even when I appear Chinese, and can speak, write and read Chinese. I have received the same “eye-rolling” when I ask too many questions or ask for substitutions in my dishes. So I really don’t think there is a racial aspect to this at all. On the otherhand, I am by no means advocating this to be acceptable behaviour.

In response to Brian’s comment about offensiveness, I have been called a C***k, growing up in Canada. In addition to some very interesting songs sang to me, that I can still remember the tunes to. I can bet with my life that I would much rather be called “yellow” than a “C***k” anyday. What is interesting, is in my conversations with other “colored” individuals, we actually find it funny that it is only “caucasians” that gasp and mind this “color-typing” the most, when most of us don’t really care. Perhaps, we have been called far worse things than a color, so it is not a big deal. But if it is an issue, I will be more mindful in the future.

I remember eating a ham and lettuce sandwich in the school cafeteria when I was little, and have people come up to me asking me if I was eating raw fish, when they can clearly see it was anything but. It is sad to hear so many of these assumptions about Chinese food still exists after so many years. While I am not out any mission trying to convert others taste palettes, it would be nice to see less judgemental opinions and assumptions and people willing to let down the guards about “us” and “them”.

I have heard many a times, even at the least English speaking restaurants, how happy and proud a Chinese person is, to see a non-Chinese appreciate their food.

In terms of hygiene, while there are the grubbier restaurants, there are very nice, high-end Chinese restaurants as well. And that also applies to other different ethnic cuisines too. “You get what you pay for” is right! If you are going to go to a 10 cent chicken wing special pub, you should not be surprised to find the service, and deco to be dollar store quality too.

I disagree that Japanese culture is more “westernized” than other asian cultures, as Hong Kong has been colonized by the UK for a number of years and is by far, much more westernized. Yet, Chinese food is still such a creepy thing for people to accept.

I think being unfamiliar, and perhaps a bit overly egocentic with our N. American values, may also be the culprit. I watched an interesting video of some American girls trying Vegemite for the first time while visiting Austrailia on youtube recently, and I was quite offended by their reactions and comments. (and I am not an Aussie)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS2Gzp8XgFQ

Would agree the hygiene standard or perception plus brusque service of some (not all) Chinese restaurants can be a barrier for some folks. However in small North American towns and cities, a Chinese restaurant might have at least civil/friendly service. I was raised in a small ontario city with family members and some friends in Chinese restaurant businesses in same city.

When I am with someone unfamiliar with Chinese cuisine in a restaurant I do also tell them, that home cooked Chinese meals are different: often less fattier/oily, more steamed dishes that may not be found often on restaurant menus, etc. More healthier since more time can be spent on the dish. For good friends, it IS useful to expose them to also another side of Chinese cuisine.

It can’t be all greasy, fattening and bad: I’m 94 lbs., 5′l” @ 50 yrs. old. (but I cycle alot for many years and now). My diet was 80% Chinese until I left home @ 22yrs. Now it’s 40% Asian.

For those who love Chinese food and eat much of it, at least do this: cook some home-cooked Chinese cuisine meals for your good/close friends so they get a well-rounded perspective, eat healthy Chinese food often. Help others find healthy choices in Chinese restaurants. It’s all possible. Especially in Metro Vancouver with alot of restaurant competition.

I also explain to people that Chinese cuisine is like French cuisine: a long history of gastronomy, technique and highly influential to other neighbouring cuisines…that it affected Japanesse and Thai cuisine. Some of their dishes reflect…Chinese cooking technique.

There are some excellent foodie on Chinese cuisine history and technique books that are great fun reading.

Dyn’s ‘explanations’ all seem to avoid expressly mentioning the issue of race, apart from her complaint about non-English menus. To wit:

1) Scaremongering: blame the media all you want. But there’s no shortage of stories in the media about factory farming and its indirect consequences (e coli poisoning and the like), and I don’t see any shortage of people at McDonalds. Is Dyn hinting at the “yellow peril”?

2) Unfamiliarity: I’m reading Dyn’s explanation as basically “I’m not eating poor people shit.” (And yet the only street food we can get are hot dogs: explain.) I’ll accept this if the same people avoid haggis, black pudding, etc., but if they’re munching down on frog legs at Le Crocodile, then we’re talking RACE.

3) Looking silly: I don’t think I’ve met a single person that is embarrassed about their lack of chopstick skills, particularly as every Chinese restaurant I’ve been to offers a fork to every non-Asian person reflexively. I don’t buy this as a legit excuse.

4) Price: the number one reason why Chinese restaurants are popular in every rural or metropolitan area of North America is price. Everyone assumes (usually correctly) that getting Chinese is the cheap option. So I don’t buy that excuse either.

5 and 7) Translation, Service and Racism: The menu issue, well, is an issue. It’s true that Chinese restaurants are much more prone to have one menu in English and another in Chinese, and to have dishes that have poorly translated items.

The former is a poor assumption on the part of Chinese restaurants that non-Asian people aren’t interested in authentic Chinese food. That type of stereotyping means you’re keeping a large market out of getting some sort of gastronomic experience which in turn begets blog topics like this.

The latter, though, sounds like a rehash of “learn our language better.” Many of the items that are complained about are named in mysterious ways because there’s a history and story behind that particular dish, and a more literal translation would spurn menus that are overly long and complicated to read (see, for example, that episode of Big Chef/Little Chef where people complain when Heston Blumenthal tries to explain too much on the breakfast menu). You don’t see too many complaints when a menu reads “sous vide” or “confit” (or, heck, “foam” for that matter). Would you expect a Mexican restaurant to break down the components of a mole sauce, or an Italian restaurant to get into the details of what osso bucco is?

If the server is giving you grief when you ask for an explanation, well, that’s just poor service. Poor service is unfortunately something that Chinese restaurants are infamous for (there’s a universal truth to that Seinfeld episode). Would I avoid a restaurant notorious for bad service? Sure. Would I write off the cuisine of an entire ethnic group? Probably not.

6) Hygiene: Fair enough – you got Chinese restaurants on that one. But there’s a lot of clean Chinese restaurants out there (Kirin, Sun Sui Wah, etc etc) that buck that trend. Again: would one dirty restaurant make you avoid the cuisine of an entire ethnic group? If that were the case, anyone that watches Kitchen Nightmares would never be able to eat out again.

All of these excuses dance around the issue of race, but then Dyn’s explanation as to why Japanese and Thai restaurants are so popular don’t. I read that part of the post as saying: “Japanese and Thai people assimilate more, so we like them more.” Back to model minority myths.

It seems that some Chinese restauranteurs don’t really understand the Western mindset regarding cleanliness and upkeep. I think culturally, we expect that if a restaurant is successful and open over time, some money should be spent to keep the interior painted, the rug or floor clean and not threadbare or cracked, the artwork exchanged once in awhile or to hang art instead of just food supply calendars. It shows a caring on the surface that hopefully reflects a caring in the kitchen for food safety and quality preparation. When we use the bathroom, we don’t expect to see a dirty (not just busy) kitchen as we walk by, and we hope the bathroom is actually clean. A lot of times it isn’t, bringing to mind “highway gas station bathroom”. It sends a clear message, and it isn’t a good message.

I was recently in a dim sum place which had a sign outside “All plates $3.00″. After we ordered, the waiter said that the owner told him that the special was already over for the day. I’m sure this is because we were not Chinese. There was no time on the sign. Later that same day as we ate our not-$3-a-plate food, we saw a mouse walk across the back of the dining room. Not run, but walk. Uh, I haven’t been back. It’s too bad, because the server really was nice and tried to help intercede with the owner.

I have many favorite Chinese restaurants which are clean and where I’ve gotten to know the owners on a first name basis. They help me choose what to eat, and tell me how to eat it. The grungy ones really are doing their own culture a great disservice, as their motivation to score a dollar on their patrons clearly outweighs their desire to feed people well.

By contrast, Thai restaurants are usually beautifully decorated and even Japanese teriyaki houses are clean. I think the perception stated about Thai being gentle is funny, as most but not all of the Thai I have met have been somewhat martial. Certainly the schools and society are regimented.

Regarding the more unusual foods, we just don’t have any experience with them. That’s one reason I like your blog. I can see through your photos and writings what is good about something I don’t understand. I’ve learned a lot from Suanne’s community cooking posts when they are about Pacific Rim ingredients, too.

I seldom find that to be true for Japanese restaurants here (although no one speaks English in Japan…) as they usually have English menus. I guess Chinese restaurants know that there is a good number of Chinese people in Vancouver and don’t need the business of anyone that can’t read Chinese.

if i ask “what is dead mans coffin” to the chinese server they look at me blankly or roll their eyes. this doesn’t happen in a philipino, middle eastern, eastern european, latin restaurant etc..

white ppl expect service, no question about it. when white ppl go to eat, they are there for food but also for experience and a nice atmosphere. whereas chinese ppl can more easily forgo service b/c they accept they are paying a lower price and they are there primarily for the food.